Those that are familiar with the Kremers Froon case know that there are many unanswered questions. Regardless of whether the two girls died accidentally or if they were murdered, one thing is clear: Formulating a coherent theory is very difficult when giving heed to all of the evidence.
It’s important to evaluate the trail and jungle conditions. The “getting lost” scenario seems a lot less likely when you realize that it’s not feasible to travel through the jungle without being on a trail.
If you want a quick summary of this article: The rainforest jungles of Panama are incredibly inhospitable – which makes it highly unlikely that Kris and Lisanne would consider veering off-trail to go into the jungle. The rainforests are so thick with vegetation, that walking off the trail would equal to climbing through a wall of plants. Nobody would willingly part from the trail and go into the thick forest.
Even explorers that are prepared with appropriate clothing, waterproof boots and a machete know that it’s difficult and dangerous to pass through the dense rainforest. Two girls on a day hike, in shorts and t-shirts, would not willingly leave the trail without a very strong reason to do so.
In truth, it’s ridiculous to me to imagine that they would attempt to walk into the jungle. However, nobody knows what happened so I try to remain objective and open-minded to all possibilities.
Before we dive into the local jungle conditions, here are some helpful related links:
- The Full Story To Understand What Happened – Start here if you’re new to the case.
- All Articles I’ve Written About The Case – The complete collection of my articles about the case.
- Kris Kremers Bleached Bones – A comprehensive analysis of Kris Kremers bones (my most in-depth research to date).
- The People Involved – A public reference list of every person involved in this disappearance case.
I live in Central America and I’m actively working with various individuals to analyze the existing information of the case. Similarly, we’re working together to gather new evidence surrounding the case.
Where Kris Kremers & Lisanne Froon Disappeared
Anytime a newcomer is first introduced to this disappearance case, it’s good for them to start with the general premise that the girls got lost somewhere during their hike. That premise helps everyone establish a framework to understand the case. After that framework is in place, you can begin exploring additional circumstances surrounding the case: The locals in the area, the backpack contents, the swimming photo, etc.
Finally, you’ll eventually realize that much of this case is extremely flimsy. The framework itself begins to be challenged. For example, there’s virtually no proof to conclude that the girls even “got lost” at all. They could have returned to Boquete after their hike. Did they go on the hike with Feliciano? Similarly, it’s possible they weren’t alive when the nighttime photos were taken. Also, why did the locals change their timelines in unison when the backpack was found?
We know they disappeared. We don’t know if they got lost.
The specific region where the girls disappeared is unknown. Where the girls died is also unknown. How their bones and backpack ended up 14 hours north, in a region with numerous farms and local villages, is also unknown.
Nobody knows where they disappeared, for a number of reasons:
- They left no records or messages of precisely where they were going.
- The timeline of their disappearance was distorted to some degree because the locals changed their story after the backpack was found.
- The taxi driver that new the timeline (and possibly kept records/logs) was found drowned, just before the case closed in 2015.
- Both phones recorded emergency calls long before the girls could have reached the first Monkey Bridge – the cable bridge where Panamanian officials claim that the girls fell and were injured.
- The camera’s recorded time was inaccurate and the photos were disorderly, with inaccurate photo times and a crucial missing photo #509.
- The camera’s temperature gauge matched temperatures in Boquete, not the temperatures on the Il Pianista trail, nor temperatures north of Il Pianista Trail where the girls were expected to be.
These are only some examples of conflicting information for why nobody knows exactly where or when the girls disappeared. Similarly, the locals themselves provided inconsistent information about when the last girls were seen. The case details are a complete mess and sorting it out isn’t possible without some degree of speculation.
Why does this matter? This matters because many people assume they got lost in the jungle. That’s a huge assumption.
Trails vs Rainforest Jungle
Those that believe in the “accident” theory assume that the two girls got lost in the jungle and succumbed to the elements. They cite how easy it is to get lost. Simple. Makes sense, right? Not exactly.
It’s important to recognize the incredibly large hurdles that are necessary in order to conclude that they would have entered the jungle in the first place.
First, the trails are not “the jungle”.
People without experience in tropical conditions often don’t realize that the jungle is very different than they might imagine. You might image someone walking through the jungle, and then… wait. Stop. Rewind. In the jungles of Panama, walking is virtually impossible. There are simply too many plants and uneven terrain. People that visit Panama’s jungles stay on the trail because they don’t really have a choice.
But they were in the jungle, weren’t they?
No. They were not in the jungle. They were on a trail that is in the jungle. That is tremendously different. Is a person in the ocean if they’re standing on the Brooklyn Bridge? No. This is not a play on words. There is a distinct difference.
Il Pianista Trail is a clear-cut trail. It’s not “the jungle”. Thousands of vacationers visit the trails each year. It’s designed with tourists in mind. There’s no point on the trail that it’s necessary to walk through the jungle to continue on the trail. It’s an open trail, mostly surrounded by fields, clear views and the obvious walking path. It’s very clear to any visitor where the line is between the trail and the jungle.
Also, there are no steep ledges or ravines anywhere near Il Pianista Trail. There was no place on the trail that Kris and Lisanne could have fallen from a height. Certainly, if they had continued 20+ minutes north, past the Mirador, they trails would become more rugged. And maybe they did that. But even then, they would not have left the rugged trail and walked into the jungle.
Second, “the jungle” is unpleasant and overwhelming.
The jungle is essentially a wall of vegetation. It’s very difficult to hike through without the proper gear. A machete is an absolute necessity to pass through the dense vegetation. Trees and vegetation grow very thick because the conditions are optimal for plant-life.
After stepping one meter into the wooded area, they quickly would have seen how difficult it is to walk and move. The chest-high plants, plus the vines, mud, uneven ground, boulders and poor visibility would have made it treacherous from the very first moment. It’s simply not possible to move quickly through the jungle.
Third, they were not prepared for the jungle.
Both girls were wearing short sleeve shirts and shorts, without gloves, no machete and their backpack wasn’t designed for a rugged outdoor setting. Their backpack and clothing would have been torn to shreds.
I’ve trekked through the rainforests numerous times, including the rainforests of Panama. It’s not pleasant and it’s not “fun” when unprepared. You must be well-prepared. Running through the rainforest is simply not possible. It only takes a quick glimpse at a rainforests conditions to realize how unwelcoming the rainforest is.
Fourth, there are very few reasons that a person would step foot into the jungle.
Nobody in their right might would intentionally go into the jungle unprepared. It’s would be a terrible feeling, suffocating and claustrophobic. So if Kris and Lisanne intentionally veered off path and entered into the jungle, there could have been only three possible motivating factors: Fear, desire or a mixture of both.
- Fear – The threat of danger could have scared them into the jungle. Going into the jungle is a risk, therefore, the danger of staying on the trail would have to be present from an external force.
- Desire – A third person could have lured them into the jungle to see something interesting. Perhaps Kris and Lisanne were interested in seeing a cave, an interesting swimming location, a zipline or something else.
- Mix – Maybe danger was present, which pressured them to do something that appeared more beneficial or safer. Or perhaps one girl was injured while the other made a poor decision to take a short-cut through the jungle.
The key problem with all of these theories is that it’s simply too difficult to move your body in the rainforest. If they were fleeing someone or something, they would have made a lot of noise in the trees. If they were going to do something fun – wouldn’t there have been a trail? Without the proper gear to carve a path, you’ll immediately face a wall of enormous plants.
Lastly, there are numerous trails in the area, numerous people live in the area and if they somehow did get lost, their cries would have been heard at some point during the following days after their disappearance.
Putting It All Together
In summary, it’s less appealing to make the assumption that they got lost in the jungle when you know the conditions of the dense jungles of Panama. They would have to be mentally unstable if they decided to veer off the trail to enter the jungle. Plus, they would have had difficulty passing through the thick vegetation.
Aside from the fact that there’s little evidence to suggest that they got lost, it’s important to give consideration to the inhospitable conditions of the jungle, especially when forming theories about their disappearance.
Certainly anything is possible. The accident theory and the murder theory both require very specific conditions that need to be met in order for the theories to carry weight. It’s complicated. Unfortunately, there is no “simple” theory.
Main article photo by Jackson Groves
Please note: Our team is committed to accuracy of information and respecting the privacy of those involved with this disappearance case. If you have any supplementary information regarding the case, or if you were involved in this case and feel that the information available in this article impacts your privacy, please contact our team.
This couldn’t be just an accident as body parts were found in the Culebra River, which is hours away from the Pianista summit, walking hours, that is. Also, the evidence of electronic stuff and the backpack, all in good, clean condition and in working order, were left in a place where it was guaranteed a local person would find all of it. These belongings, known to be of Kris and Lisanne, were given up on purpose to make a statement. Also, the bag of food items and what appears to be Lisanne’s left insole, taken from the same boot that was found, the left boot, were found but I think these items were discovered more by accident than on purpose. It was murder. So who’s responsible? Who lives in the woods?
Hello
*Warning this post is probably less articulate than others but I’ll try and sound smart!*
I came across your blog after FB advertised a short video to me that talked about the presenters own overview of / thoughts on the case. Decided to look further into it. The original video I watched seemed to lean heavily on “they got lost” and a little bit of “maybe they were murdered” but it hadn’t given me enough information to even suspect the latter. But now I have read this.
All I will say is that the backpack and the strange photos at the end, put such a twist on things. I also am aware there are countries and areas of countries where the law may not be so trustworthy, or the inhabitants.. who would lie to protect each other. I imagine authority expects some level of lying but this may have been a whole other level of cover up.
Part of me wonders whether they stopped the case not only because they weren’t about to get anyone to confess, but also because they needed the tourism. They needed peace with the families who lived on and by the trials, to keep the money coming in.
I have also read about a couple of “honest” people during investigations too, but unsure how legitimate and/or coincidental these are.
Re: lost in jungle, I have read that search and rescue operations may have included use of loud speakers on 8 april. Does anybody know if this included signaling instructions?
After the final search in Panama (an initiative of the parents), all parties, including the parents, agreed they probably slipped, fell in a ravine and couldn’t leave.
I’ve never been to the location, but apparently there were parts pass the summit where they could have slipped and fallen.
https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht~a14a0703/
There’s a story about why the parents decided to accept it as an accident. Immediately after #508, there are no more selfes; in fact, there are no photos at all. The girls were murdered.
P.S. I can’t help but think that the guide, Feliciano, had something to with Kris’s and Lisanne’s disappearance. I just can’t shake off the feeling that he is very much involved in their fatal demise.
I remember a CSI investigator once saying that more often than not, either the first person on the scene of a crime or the first witness, is usually the perpetrator of the crime as this is their way of directing any suspicion away from them.
The TripAdvisor review and the fact that he was involved in the search for Kris and Lisanne, and was supposedly the one who found their bones and the rucksack is very suspicious. He ingratiated himself with the families of the presumed dead girls making them like him and possibly trust him enough not to have had anything to do with their daughters demise, so much as being a guide to Lisanne’s brother.
I seriously wonder what a search of his premise might show up, honestly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/truecrimelongform/comments/a7qslp/the_lost_girls_of_panama_what_happened_to_kris/
He didn’t find the backpack.
The website for the reviews is ~ https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g298424-d3755701-r692449492-Feliciano_Tours-Boquete_Chiriqui_Province.html
Also, I inadvertently gave to much info in terms of privacy in my previous comment. I’d like my picture deleted. Since I can’t do that, can you?
Abena
Yep. Done. Please confirm.
Thank you for your comments with links. This type of simple collaboration is very helpful in researching various aspects of the case. I like to see people looking into things and reporting back, it helps inform people interested in the case. Thank you!
Hi Chris, your site was recommended in a video I watched recently about the missing Dutch girls. I had heard about this incident before so was curious to find out if there was any update whiles watching the YouTube video. None, really.
But, whiles watching another ‘missing person’s’ video that featured Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon story, I paused at a section in the video which showed reviews for the guide, Feliciano, whom Kris and Lisanne had booked a hiking tour with, and was struck by the heading of the review shown in the video. The title said “Great guide, but not for women traveling alone.” Obviously, since it was just a segment in the video I couldn’t click on the ‘see more’ to read the full review, so I did a search for ‘Feliciano Panama Guide’ and bingo!, the search brought up the site where this review was featured.
Reading the full review gives me the chills. The person, obviously a lady, spoke of Feliciano harassing her, touching different parts of her body despite she telling him not to do so repeatedly. He also supposedly jokingly told her at one point that he would chop off her legs. Why would he say something like that?
I decided to read the reviews of other tourists and one gave positive feedback but mentioned that Feliciano, and I quote: “Feliciano is a very nice person who surprised us with a lot of Dutch words.”
I find it interesting that there’s only the one negative review amidst plenty of positive to raving reviews about Feliciano.
What do you think?
Hi Abena,
Thanks for your comments. I haven’t written much about Feliciano because I don’t want to draw attention to him if he truly is innocent.
That said, I do believe that Feliciano knows more about what happened than he’s lead the public to believe. If you read Jeremy Kryt’s articles – he provides details of his ominous experience when he interviewed Feliciano.
Personally, I think that Feliciano would have trouble to take down and control two young women simultaneously. If he was involved in their disappearance, it may have been indirect in some way, or perhaps to protect someone he knows. There are many possibilities. In Latin America, people protect their own families at all cost.
If you look into the “Swimming photo” and dig deep into the story behind it, there’s enough pieces to formulate the possible scenario that the girls had returned from their hike and then went swimming with some locals – some of which were friends of one of Feliciano’s sons. From there, you can put together a reasonably coherent theory.
Drawing these connections is only speculation. Without more supportive evidence, we must be careful about casting blame.
Cheers
Hi Chris,
Since you had the photo of Kris up, it really strikes me as odd as to why Lisanne was taking photos of Kris in this way. It led me to cross check on other sites and happened on someone’s Google Album and a host of theories.
But what stuck with me was this photo on your site. The Google album has a list of photos from where they were supposedly made from starting at the trail, where Kris is wearing the same tank top and shorts.
My thoughts may already been echoed/disproved/ridiculed etc by many others, but I’m still making my observations to see what you think Chris. Feel free to correct everything as I’m a casual observer to this tragic case.
I also just linked these since they seem more of higher resolution than others for some reason.
1. The photo in the link below looks to me like at the start of hike somewhere. No dog around for some reason.
It shows both of them taking a Couple Selfie. Viewers pointed out that Kris has a distinct black earring in her right ear lobe and the left ear lobe has a silver earring part only showing. Maybe this is due to the angle of this photo and her ear lobe structure.
Her tank top strap on her left side ends in a red stripe. This was brought up in the comments and caught my attention at first.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOaDcK-zyudR_UXP4xNvvSpKhbEUNHFkl1cvaGaZrvkiKqkgSL0BK5mjUL2SGcDjw/photo/AF1QipMn6tJYPKqicMxIoFiSuJz5xZzOysVKEHWfE_jP?key=UjkzUHpsRmtLNUc2RlphdjVTWHRZSVEySjNYS0NR
2. So I looked at this photo on the mountain top, middle of this trail? Kris has a black earring in her left ear lobe, which in the previous above photo wasn’t clearly visible.
Her tank top strap on her left side ends in a red stripe. At first I went along with the “Aha” moment, but realized that in the previous couple selfie, her ear lobe is not as much visible and the camera angle may hide the black part of the earring.
I feel it is easy to misuse this detail as a discrepancy, if photos on the mountain top don’t add up for some reason.
The lighting on her whole body is different compared to Lisanne in the same position/location on the mountain top. Maybe quick moving clouds came across in the span it took to snap these photos? Amazing then how quick these clouds move like opening an umbrella and losing it.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOaDcK-zyudR_UXP4xNvvSpKhbEUNHFkl1cvaGaZrvkiKqkgSL0BK5mjUL2SGcDjw/photo/AF1QipP96Bz3SJ58yvomS5PjarIcdf2hqsa00A6ZvHE1?key=UjkzUHpsRmtLNUc2RlphdjVTWHRZSVEySjNYS0NR
3. And now back to this photo you posted as well. To me Kris’s expressions and stance don’t look as jovial as the above two.
Is that a camera or bottle of water in her hand that she is holding?
Not sure why Lisanne took this picture of her in this way, and from what seems so far away.
When you zoom in closer, the left side of her tank top strap ends in white stripe, unless the shade is hiding the red tank top stripe or that it has folded in due to movement of her arm/shoulder during this part of their journey.
I cannot see the earring as it is too blurry to dispute my other descriptions, but I maintain that the earrings are the same on both ears.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOaDcK-zyudR_UXP4xNvvSpKhbEUNHFkl1cvaGaZrvkiKqkgSL0BK5mjUL2SGcDjw/photo/AF1QipO-n_dbcE54DPAcFFGohap4ny2BOEC8fzSxN01f?key=UjkzUHpsRmtLNUc2RlphdjVTWHRZSVEySjNYS0NR
And this photo leads to the final one where Kris is standing on the small rock in the stream. Btw I did not see any dog(s) in any of these or other photographs that were discovered.
So where is Azul? If he was seen with them and what part of trail did he leave them to go back? Where there anybody reporting when they saw Azul return or in the vicinity away from the trail during the timeframe of 11am – 4:30pm on April 1st?
I tried to find out a bit more about what happened after the last photo of Kris standing on the rock and Stream.
From your other article (where to start with this case), the link to De Bovenkamer Article did not lead me to the article. So I googled it and came across this timeline link from another blog who had De Bovenkamer breakdown of events.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TRV5ie32aIE/WuucfeofjTI/AAAAAAAAe4I/gc_kjWEoALkviw38gwKELrfiCOqVzcUhwCLcBGAs/s1600/ibioblucptypqw.png
Questions based on this log:
1. Why wait nearly 14 hours from the first two 112 calls to make another 112 call?
Let’s assume they were lost and were busy trekking during this time why not try again?
2. April 2nd Phone makes contact with GSM at 14:00 but then nothing after that other than possibly an earthquake happened nearby after 2 hours.
Why did they not make more calls from that area if they managed to connect (even briefly)? I would be in a bit of a panic by then and retried a few more times just out of hope.
Why no calls to their parents, boyfriends, etc? Why no local calls to the host family’s home or cell phone? Why no calls to anyone they met recently like those Dutch guys?
Were these ladies conservative and not share their numbers with other young guys during the previous encounters in the clubs they visited, dinner get-togethers they had, etc? Or was everybody conservative back in 2014?
3. The search party was on and helicopter search indicated on 8am of April 3rd. Could they have heard the helicopter or search parties then and tried to call for help? There’s phone usage on April 3rd but why no more calls?
4. Why did they not take more photos during the day like the last one of Kris standing on the stream or in the photo in your blog post? Did they forget they had a camera until the 1am in the morning on the 8th of April?
5. There seems to be no proper confirmation according to this log in terms of when there were night searches.
Assuming this log is remotely correct, the 90 photos suddenly show up at 1am after the first night of searching occurred. So then this makes sense as to why those night photos might have occurred.
But the photos themselves showing Kris’s hair, plastic bag contraption and boulders, vegetation, doesn’t make sense over the course of 3 hours. Or did the photos have direct relation to the search party calling out to them during this time frame?
7. Did the ladies hear the party in the distance and got excited and one of them fell somewhere resulting in injury to maybe Kris?
Were they quickly making the plastic bag SOS as a way for the search party? How about the tin can cover that might have been used as a mirror to reflect the camera flash for the search party? Was there anyone signaling them to prompt this response?
8. Once again for me it is odd that there are no more photos during this whole time, even though there could have been space especially if authorities claim girls deleted their photos before. Why not? Maybe not selfies, etc but at least to mark their passage in order to not get lost or go round in circles?
9. Also no Videos at all on the camera. How strange?
10. No more photos taken on their phones either of anything since they supposedly went off the beaten path. Why not?
– JL
Re: photo where kris is distant. Look down at what appears to be a log crossing. Perhaps lisanne hesitated crossing and kris had a break waiting for her. I perceive crossed legs as a possible friendly joke as if you are waiting for slowpoke to catch up. You have many intesesting points there. I also say there was no dog.
Let‘s say there was no dog. Then you must ask why that entered the story. Were they mistaken? Was someone concerned dog hair could end up on their property as evidence that fueled questions? Did they see the dog at the end of their hike not at the start? Is there another reason? Did dog start with them and stop early on hike? Who lives with the dog? So many odd pieces to the puzzle.
Wearing shorts in the jungle in a hot and humid environment doesn’t surprise me at all. Especially when these are young ladies about the age of 20 who most likely have never been in such a weather environment. I will also tell you that you can be 35 and still be in shorts. You don’t travel to South and Central America with long pants except if you will be dining in a nice restaurant/hotel and I don’t think that would be the case staying in a host family’s home in a small country town.
Hi Jane, thank you for your comment. You are absolutely right that wearing shorts in hot and humid conditions would not be surprising. I wear shorts 99% of the time living down here in Central America. It’s very hot.
But we should be careful in our assumptions. Was it hot and humid? We should not make this assumption. They were approximately 1,300 meters (~4,265 feet) in elevation, which has cooler temperatures. I discussed this heavily in my other article:
https://imperfectplan.com/2020/07/02/kris-kremers-lisanne-froon-panama-bleached-bones/
Also, wearing shorts in hot and humid conditions is different than wearing shorts off-trail, in the jungle, at high elevations. Undoubtedly, anyone would have a very poor experience if they left the trail while wearing shorts. That was a key component to this article. The jungles are not hospitable conditions, especially in shorts. The trail itself is comfortable and reasonably safe against thorns, sharp plants and large insects. Entering the jungle is unwelcoming, burdensome and treacherous.
Furthermore, the density of the jungle usually makes it very difficult to leave the trail. Only one or two steps off the trail and anyone will quickly be overwhelmed with plants. Giant plants, vines, thorns, boulders, mud, uneven terrain, not to mention insects – all are examples of impediments that dominate the jungle.
Lastly, you said “You don’t travel to South and Central America with long pants”. That seems to be a large assumption within itself. Travelers that plan to go off-trail and into the jungle will be prepared with pants – even if they must purchase the pants on their trip. I always bring a pair of blue-jeans in my backpack when traveling/hiking and I would never attempt to enter the jungle without pants, long-sleeves, gloves and a machete. In this disappearance case, we know they didn’t have pants on their hike and they were unprepared for anything more than a light hike. So, we shouldn’t assume that they had planned to hike into the jungle.
You highlight some of the confusing and frustrating aspects of their disappearance. It’s difficult to know why they would go off-trail wearing minimal clothing for protection. We simply don’t know at this point.
Thanks again for your comment and cheers
It would be impossible to walk through a jungle dressed in tank top and shorts!!you wouldn’t get far!!
I do tours in my country – rainforest. You are right – trail is not what we call ‘hunters’ tracks’ which means off trail walking.
Even in all the adventurous journeys people naturally stick to the trail unless there is a sound reason for coming off. You were right to say something could have made them go off trail or someone could offered to show them a nice spot. I thought the very same.
I believe they were sensible to be able to find their way back on the trail they used to go in. They won’t have gone off trail just like that. It is very unnatural even for adventurous folks. You’d choose the path of least resistance either way.
I don’t know why but I am just thinking one of the girls may have been alive longer or even currently. Human trafficking could be an issue. Another thought that came to mind was the black market for human organs. Those are real world issues.
I hope that the facts are all found and the family gets closure and justice.
Hi Gabriel, thank you for your comment.
You understand my point and it’s refreshing to hear your experienced option. That’s very cool that you do rainforest tours! In which country do you offer tours?
I’ve read many oversimplifications about this case online, so I decided to offer some insight into jungle conditions. Certainly if Kris and Lisanne decided to leave the safety of the trail, they had a clear reason to do so.
Cheers
Chris. Do you know if there is any Ping data from the phone company? Also I am new to this sad case and am sure I read that they did indeed go beyond the end of the trail and if so could that have simply let them to take first one then another hunters track which I understand exist beyond the divide. In their naivety could they have been looking for a waterfall or swimming place which exists close to the divide? Then could it have been simply that they turned around and came to a fork in that track and the rest becomes history. For the river to have carried them away needs them to be laid up and die below the high water line for the river. There is the scenario that they could have come to a river and decided to try and follow it down. If indeed they did wash down from a place higher up the river then the bodies must have been together or not far apart. So much important detail is missing. Was the rucksack undamaged or not? How did the bodies get trashed but the rucksack and its contents not? Also the bras disturb me. They were totally incorrectly dressed for their walk. It would be humid during the day but cold at night. Surely they would wear them. If you are in distress how tidy are you with the contents of your rucksack? Ny final comment is about the night foto from the back of a head. IF that was Kris, is it not strange that her hair is so clean after being out in the open for 7 days during which time it will have rained? That does not add up. So many questions and an aliased set of data to work from. Cheers Jon
Hi Jon, you ask a lot of great questions. Welcome to the complexity of this disappearance case…it will only lead you to ask more questions and dig for more answers. Your observations are excellent.
Unfortunately, there are not many concrete answers to any of your questions.
Your question about ping data from the phone is a strong point of interest. The Panama government claimed that records didn’t exist. I believe that they didn’t do their due diligence (which is very common for official investigations in latin america) and I believe that those records still might possibly exist. I’m currently working with a small team to try to retrieve those records, although it’s a very slow and cumbersome process.
Regarding the rucksack – it was unharmed and the electronics inside were in perfect working condition. It should have been submerged, as it was not waterproof and was made of flimsy material. The state of the backpack implies additional suspicious circumstances surrounding this case. In fact, the backpack was found downstream from their bodily remains, on the bank of a river. So, if the backpack was not submerged, that would imply that Kris or Lisanne would have walked downstream (near the villages), then put the backpack down, then walked upstream, then somehow died, then somehow their remains flowed downstream with chemical traces and without any scratches from rocks. I don’t buy that story.
Others have suggested that maybe the girls died and then someone, perhaps even an innocent person, placed the backpack there. However, my response to that: How would an innocent person know to place the backpack near the same precise location where their bodily remains were found? To me, I believe the backpack served as a marker/flag – essentially to say “stop searching, the bones are in this area”.
Regarding the hair – you are absolutely correct. I’ve discussed this with a number of people. The hair is very clean, has no visible signs of debris and is not oily. Certainly, if that is the hair of Kris, it makes little sense how her hair would be perfectly clean after numerous days in the jungle.
As you can see, very little makes sense about this case. I believe they were murdered. However, I remain objective and open minded, especially with hope and consideration that more information will be uncovered eventually.
Cheers
Hello Chris. Very, very good articles on this case. Thank you for such in depth information and views. The fact that you are so experienced makes it completely authentic.
I think this is a 100% case of foul play. Either one of or both of the guides conspired to kidnap, rape and kill them or they met a gang of goons or indigenous people who saw them and decided rob, rape and kill/sacrifice them. There is little to argue about whether or not they went off the trail or got injured. They were experienced travelers and apart from enjoying the nature and views, I don’t think they were up to any dangerous adventure.
The fact that their belongings were in the best condition despite of [supposedly] being in the rain forest for weeks, its sudden appearance after an award for 3 thousand was announced itself is enough proof that it was with someone. The last 90 pictures of just rocks and trees and plants were purposely taken to throw the investigators off in believing the girls were lost. Had even one of them been taken by the 2 victims, they would be in them. They must have died in the early days after the capture because the culprits knew that there would be a manhunt for them.
We will never know ho they died and what their last few days on this earth were like. I am very convinced they died a horrible death. We can only jope the rule of Karma will get their murderers sooner than later.
I meant reward of thirty thousand 🙂
Hi Ash, thank you for your comment. You offer some healthy speculation. Similar to you, I believe that both girls were murdered, although I try not to speculate too much about the details of the murder because I still want more answers before finalizing my conclusion.
A lot of people are still searching for answers and I believe more details will come to light eventually. I’m offering support to anyone willing to contribute to the search for more answers and I’m currently working with a small team that’s working together on various angles of the case.
Something will come up eventually.
Cheers
I agree 100 percent. After watching tons of videos on youtube, reading interviews, learning about Boquete, the school, the guide, the son, his gang friends … and NOT a single photo shortly after 508 tells you something untoward happened. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if their remains are buried on Feliciano’s coffee farm.
Having grown up in Latin America, I agree that most rainforest is impassable without a trail — although I’ve also hiked higher altitude rainforests (I grew up at the northern end of the Andes) where the growth thins out. In the Scouts, we visited many national parks and private nature preserves where six inches off the path became a wall of leaves, branches, and thorns… but we also visited higher altitude parks, where some wandering was possible.
As an animal lover who’s more used to the city (my childhood trips to the jungle were an anomaly of sorts: most of my childhood was spent in our capital city’s concrete metropolis), I mostly knew (and know) domesticated cats and dogs — pets who I’d worry about if they wandered away from me. It wouldn’t occur to me that a dog or a cat who’d strayed far from me might find his or her way back home unaided.
So since Ms. Kremers and Ms. Froon went hiking with the inn’s owners’ dog… it occurs to me: what if he went running off the path and into the overgrowth after a smaller animal or a noise, and the hikers went looking for him? I can imagine them thinking he’d get lost, and I can imagine them not wanting to return to the inn having to say “Sorry, we lost your dog!” Chasing the dog might even explain why they strayed from the trail considerably, even if penetrating the rainforest took some effort.
Other things contradict this hypothesis, like the intact backpack and jeans shorts. But I can imagine myself chasing after a dog into the jungle, if I was afraid the dog might get hurt or lost or killed. I’d probably easily lose track of time and the trail I walked in on, if I were really worried about my animal friend.
Anyhow, saludos to you, and excellent work on the blog! I do hope the hikers’ families find some answers, and justice, and peace. Again, from my experience, I know how creepy and tightlipped things can get in our communities that are further down the ladder of opportunity — I remember towns that seemed like alien villages, just 20 minutes from the capital, where the residents would stare at us with suspicion and thinly-veiled hostility, even though the only thing separating my dad and I from the locals were our clothes and our manner and our relatively better, though also not perfect, teeth. And my mom, who’s from the USA, stuck out like a sore thumb, so I was in fear for her life most days of my childhood. This incident brings back memories, and is unsettling to me on a visceral level. Again, I hope there is resolution to it someday.
Hi Daniel, thank you for your feedback and comments.
It’s always great to hear from another person with experience living in Latin America for perspective. I know what you mean about tight-lipped communities. It’s certainly common. A lot of the silence in a community directly relates to the level of crime in an area, or just lack of trust for outsiders.
I see what you mean about higher altitudes having less vegetation.
I just did a little research on this because you mentioned it. The conditions where Kris and Lisanne disappeared ranged between 800 and 1700 meters above sea level. The “tree line” in Costa Rica is approximately 3,400 meters. Costa Rica is next to Panama and therefore has very similar environmental conditions. So, where Kris and Lisanne went missing wouldn’t have thinning trees and vegetation, unless it was cleared land for farming or trails. That’s consistent with the photos in the region too.
You make an interesting point about the dog. It’s possible that they would have worried about being responsible for the dog getting lost. I would have felt a sense of responsibility too had a friends dog ran away, especially if I was unfamiliar with the culture in Panama. The reason why I question this is because the girls had already been in Panama for two weeks. Given how many dogs roam the streets in Panama (and most of latin america), two weeks would be enough time for them to become familiar with the observing the culture of animal/human relations.
Similarly, there’s no evidence to suggest that the dog was with them. However, you could be right. Maybe they weren’t aware of the dog’s independent nature and tried to follow him. As far as we know, the dog wasn’t on a leash, which is very common in Central America.
Again, thanks for your comments.
Chris, I live in boquete and have been on the Pianista. Your opinions about hiking on the Pianista are spot on. Regarding the dog, there was never a dog on the trail, no fotos, no witnesses, NADA. The dog in question is Blue, a husky that I actually know. He lives at the Il Pianista restaurant 1km from the trail head. The restaurant owners made a false statement, IMHO, that the dog went with them. No proof, even if the dog followed them, it could not be seen more than 100m from the restaurant. Regarding the hosts dog. Not possible as the girls took a taxi, and dogs are definitely not allowed in taxis here. Conflating the restaurant dog with the host family dog (which I don’t believe exists) Also this hosts dog story is totally BS on several youtube channels propagating this falsehood.
Hi Jaime,
Thank you sharing your observations. It’s great to hear from one of my readers in Boquete!
I agree with you about the dog Blue. There is zero factual evidence that suggests that Blue went with the girls, therefore we only have the choice to disregard that part of the story. As you know, many dog owners in Latin America permit their dogs to roam freely.
It’s difficult to formulate an opinion on why the owners of the dog made that claim. Any ideas? It could be an innocent miscommunication between the dog owners and the police/press, it could be legitimate and valid, or it could be something sinister, such as an attempt to mislead the investigation (perhaps under threat from someone else). There are many possibilities.
I’m interested in speaking to you more if you have some time. I’d like to hear your opinions about the case.
Thanks and cheers
Wasn’t there a statement made by French tourists who hiked the trail that day that they heard screaming and saw men running through the jungle?
SK – where did you read about the tennants’ experience with Feliciano as a landlord?
Also, sorry to be nitpicky, but I think the name of the trail is El Pianista. Il Pianista is the name of the Italian restaurant at the base of the trail (a play on words since Il is El in Italian).
Hi M, thank you for you comments. Your points are helpful for the accuracy of the details we have of the case.
I’ll need to correct the name of “Il Pianista Trail” to “El Pianista Trail”, good point.
Regarding your comment about the French tourists – the French tourists themselves didn’t hear the screams. It was other locals that told the French tourists not to go on a nearby hike because the locals heard screams in the forest. The french blog is here (link). Scarlet talks a bit about this on her blog.
Thanks and cheers
Chris,
Thank you for your reply. It makes a big difference whether the tourists heard the cries themselves or were simply told about cries (and the sound of a fall – maybe to set up that scenario in peoples’ minds?), so thank you for clarifying that important point.
Sorry, would you be able to clarify the following statement:
“The camera’s temperature gauge matched temperatures in Boquete, not the temperatures on the Il Pianista trail, nor temperatures north of Il Pianista Trail where the girls were expected to be.”
I’ve never read this before, where did you get this information? Also, the girls clearly did do the trail then a bit of the local trail after the Divide before something happened to them. So, at least up until about 2pm on 1 Apr, the camera should have recorded ‘pianista’ temperature. Are you saying the night photos didn’t record correct temperatures for the region (at night)?
Hi Nightstar,
Excellent questions. And yes, you are correct – the camera did not record the correct temperature for the area where they supposedly disappeared on the continental divide.
I’m basing this statement on the writing of Scarlet, whom is well informed about the case and whom I’ve communicated with more than once. She wrote in her blog:
“The camera itself measured – and recorded – a temperature of 24 degrees while these night photos were taken. Which coincides with the average temperature that night. But after three hours of consequently using the camera, its temperature would be expected to rise over time.”
Here is the link to her article.
In my article “Kris Kremers Bleached Bones” I did an in-depth analysis of the climate conditions of the various regions where Kris and Lisanne could have gotten lost. I researched the temperature, elevation, rainfall data and a number of other variables.
Boquete maintained an average temperature of 24 degrees Celsius (75 F) during the month of April. On top of the Continental Divide, where the two girls supposedly went missing, the average temperature was estimated to be 20 degrees Celsius (68 F), namely due to the rainfall, higher elevation and lack of sunlight from cloud cover. During the day and night, the temperature fluctuates of course, which means that the temperature would be slightly lower during the evenings, when the night photos were taken. In the end, higher elevations in the region don’t maintain an average temperature of 24 degrees C, especially during the evening.
Therefore, there are a few possibilities:
There are a lot of variables at play in the analysis of both the local temperatures plus the temperature reading of the camera itself. It’s difficult to be 100% certain of most things in this disappearance case. However, if the camera’s reading was correct (or approximately correct), then we know that the nighttime photos were taken at lower elevations south of the continental divide. The high elevations of the mountains, especially at night, are cooler and not the hot steamy tropical conditions that most people imagine.
Cheers
Is it dangerous to assume that the night photos were taken at Caldera hot springs near Boquete? after reading your articles, going through the blogspot and google image gallery put together by Juan, i’m only beginning to assume that higher authority figures (on panama’s side ofc) might also be in on this, tampering with evidence. multiple other interviews with Feliciano would prove that he slips his tongue a lot when it comes to the phones in the room and in the bag pack, also past history of him being a landlord and his uncomfortable events with the female tenants . some Spanish articles from a journalist even reads that a lawyer said the bleached bones weren’t even belonging to Kris. it’s really hard for me to put everything together, my mind is working overtime because I’ve been fed all of this info for the past weeks, everything is moving fast. I just want to thank you for trying to put together a team to reopen this case, whether its going to be officially reopened or not, these girls deserve justice.
Hi SK, Thank you for your comment.
There are many theories that are possible at this point. You are not alone about it being difficult to create a coherent theory. It’s difficult for anyone. There are no “simple” theories that make sense. Also, the Caldera hot springs are certainly on the list of possible places that the two girls could have went. That’s one reason there is so much speculation about the “swimming photo“.
You mention an interesting point: “Some Spanish articles from a journalist even reads that a lawyer said the bleached bones weren’t even belonging to Kris”.
Can you give me the links to those Spanish articles? I want to see if there’s any detailed information for why the lawyer made that claim. The Dutch forensic team did DNA tests on the bones and confirmed that the bones were from the two girls. So, there is a contradiction. I have little doubt that the Dutch forensic team was accurate. But still, this is worthy of looking into.
Thank you and cheers
http://www.melodijoadelita.com/2014/12/fiscal-no-se-atreve-decir-que-se-trato.html and http://www.melodijoadelita.com/2014/09/criminologo-refuta-la-hipotesis-de-la.html I believe these are the original articles, i couldn’t find the other articles from before, maybe they were deleted from the original website.
I’ve read it from the google doc gallery where all of Adelita Coriat’s articles are shown with translations in the comments – https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOaDcK-zyudR_UXP4xNvvSpKhbEUNHFkl1cvaGaZrvkiKqkgSL0BK5mjUL2SGcDjw/photo/AF1QipNLYDToVA42L-MezFQUNwzFOgp44srbz9HkLq3Z?key=UjkzUHpsRmtLNUc2RlphdjVTWHRZSVEySjNYS0NR in which the Journalist also reports that the criminologist Octavio Calderón (who also died after the events) was ‘extremely suspicious of the way in which “the skeleton” of the girls appears.’ there are also mentions about the shoe. the second article especially talks about the same criminologist believing that the bones were intentionally placed there, he has also ruled out that the girls were attacked by wild animals.
https://www.laestrella.com.pa/nacional/140908/ultimos-momentos-celulares-registran-holandesas – this is the article where the lawyer Enrique Arrocha is convinced that someone has killed them
Hi SK,
Thanks for these links. Enrique Arrocha certainly disputes the official theory by the government. However, I don’t see anywhere in these articles that Arrocha claims that the bones were not the bones of Kris Kremers. Your original comment gave me the impression that Arrocha believed that the bones were of a different person.
Anyway, thank you for sharing these links. Salud!
Chris
SK – where did you read about the tenants’ experience with Feliciano as landlord?